Leonard Pitts calls out the so-called "Christians" who support torture

[thatcrazycajun]

Far as I'm concerned, old Mark had the best possible response to the torture supporters, in chapter 8, verse 36: "For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?" Even if you accept the notion that torture can sometimes be called for and even sometimes be effective (neither of which I will concede), there is still this to consider: If we let ourselves become as bad as the enemy, in the name of achieving victory or safety, then what the hell are we even fighting for? The answer to that question has to be more than mere survival.

But one of my favorite pundits, the Miami Herald's Leonard Pitts Jr., comes in a close second to the Gospel as quoted above with this column he published today. I would dearly love to slip a copy of it into each pew at every church, temple, mosque and other house of worship in the land come this weekend...and had I the resources, I'd cheerfully do so. Between this and the constant inveighing against homosexuality, abortion and suchlike, it's hardly a wonder the young folks are deserting the churches in droves...as adamselzer helpfully points out by linking to this other article from ABC News.

Bottom line: Don't you fucking dare try and tell me you're in favor of allowing our soldiers and spies to torture under any circumstances at all, ever, and then in the next breath claim to be a Christian...or the real Jesus Christ will bitch-slap your ass silly when He comes back.

Comments

[ann-totusek.livejournal.com]

I have a sticker on my car that I love.

"As Christians, we're sorry for being self-righteous, judgemental bastards."

I know I can't apologize on behalf of those that _aren't_ sorry, but I can apologize if I have behaved that way, and on behalf of those who simply don't know any better.

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

As someone at whom a Christian stranger in the library virtually spat today because I politely answered her question about what the term "BCE" means and why some people prefer to use it rather than "BC," thanks for saying this. I don't know whether she could be successfully taught that her own faith does not demand (or even authorize) that she be a self-righteous, judgmental bastard, but it comforts me to be reminded that there are those who know it.

[starmalachite.livejournal.com]

Ann, I would *love* one of those stickers. Do you happen to remember where you found it?

[pocketnaomi.livejournal.com]

No he won't. He'll just look at you sadly, take a deep breath, and start trying to teach you better. Again.

[thatcrazycajun.livejournal.com]

Well, even if He won't, I can practically guarantee the ghost of Bea Arthur will get them for that. :-)

[jannyblue.livejournal.com]

I need to send a copy of that in dead-tree form to my stepfather with a note saying "quid pro quo, Clarice..."

After what he did to me on Monday it seems only fair...

Anyone have a dead-tree version of it I can have?

(The incident I'm referring to is in a F-Locked entry in my LJ)

[technoshaman.livejournal.com]

Preach it, brother. I don't agree with all the theological whooziwhatsis surrounding the legend, but I do agree with what the gentleman himself said and did, according to the separate accounts of an educated tax collector, a simple fisherman, and a physician. The most important bit being, love your neighbor, even if he looks like a scumbag and is probably married to a Baal-worshipping pagan, he might just save your life.

You can substitute "queer", "Muslim", and various other epithets where appropriate...

[nancylebov.livejournal.com]

And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

I keep think that's at least as good an anti-torture quote. There's also the golden rule.

More generally, I think nationalism is more like a religion for most people than actual religions are.

[zanda-myrande.livejournal.com]

It's certainly true that many who claim to be Christians can find excuses for torture, and therefore are not practising Christianity as I learned it...but so can many who do not profess any religion. I know when I nailed my colours to the mast on this there was no perceptible religious bias among those who disagreed with me (though of course my flist is a non-random sampling and therefore statistically unreliable).

[maugorn.livejournal.com]

Despite the "noble" goals, the means of torture are the means of Evil: To break the spirit, to quench the ability to resist, to force acquiescence. It's that last part that is so attractive to the purveyors of authority, and ANY purveyor of authority will be tempted by that last. If one believes one's cause is just enough or that the "greater good" is great enough, then the Agenda becomes bigger than the pain and suffering of that one smaller soul, especially if that smaller soul is seen as being a threat to a greater "good". If someone is Evil, or Flawed, then it becomes OK to harm them, especially if their goal is to harm you. That Self-defense is justifiable is almost Universally accepted, and that might be as it should be, BUT...

The flaw, I believe comes in passing quickly over that very little point of the diminution of your enemies' value as individuals, as justification of harming them or making them suffer. It's one thing to STOP someone from harming you, but it's another thing altogether to cause another being to suffer and justify their suffering as less important than your agenda.

And the final nail comes in making that false dichotomy of who *deserves* to suffer, because once there is a class of people who *deserve* to suffer, (with the implication that ONLY the people who deserve to suffer are suffering, and that WE the INNOCENT and all who are also innocent have nothing to fear), then it's ONLY a matter of time until someone who is actually innocent is mistaken for someone who "deserves" to suffer and that innocent person is tortured. Not only is their confession less than worthless, but now it becomes WE the no longer innocent who are as Evil as those we ostensibly oppose.

The way to not go there, is, to not *choose* to go there.
Infliction of suffering on others is what Evil People do, and I just don't see a justification for doing as Evil does as working for Good in the long run.

Thanks for staying strong on this point and I'm proud to stand with you on it!

[baggette.livejournal.com]

wow, I really like how you articulate that.

May I friend you?

[maugorn.livejournal.com]

Um, sure, but be forewarned that not only can I be just as articulate when I'm being an opinionated jerk, but I can also be an extremely longwinded articulate opinionated jerk.