FIAWOL? Not at these prices, anymore
Apr. 11th, 2008 06:07 pmIn the three decades (as of this August) I have been an active science-fiction fan, a lot has changed about the conventions where my tribe gathers. Some of it for the better, to be sure...but some much less so. Definitely in the latter category is the drastic increase in the monetary and time/hassle cost of this obsession lifestyle to which I have become accustomed.
Time was, back in the halcyon days of my misspent youth (around 1978 to the late 1980s), one could easily attend a convention in another town and not have to worry about spending more than $100. (Of course, that was back when my youthful physique could stand being crammed in a hotel room with 10 other people for a couple days at a time. Ah, memories...) These days, most of my old regular cons are several states away from where I live, and some occupy hotels in the midtown section of large cities, which are the most expensive. Average convention membership, even for fairly small cons, has gone from $15-20 to around $50-60. Transportation, thanks to deregulation, Benjamin-a-barrel crude oil and 30 years of inflation, has gone through the roof: even CoastCon, in Biloxi a mere two states over, is a nine-hour drive from here costing easily a couple tankfuls each way at $3.50 a gallon, or an airport odyssey taking three hours plus and over $300. And this one's on the beachfront, the only place where hotels are more expensive than in a big-city downtown; even the less fancy ones approach $90 a night for the weekend peak times, when most cons just happen to be held.
Upshot: any out-of-town con, even one a couple hours' drive up the road in Chattanooga, is liable to ding me upwards of $300 after taxes and fees for a weekend's worth of whatever fun can be had. And the farther away the con, the more hundreds of dollars added to the cost...even before we start talking about little niceties like food, ground transport to/from airports, a cat-sitter for Ari the Humongous Orange Tabby™, tipping to various service folk, at-con purchases and other incidentals. Going to Balticon up in Maryland next month, even with a room-share, could easily use up a full five C-notes; and Contata's cost projections look almost as bad. And don't even get me started on the mind- and bank-account-blowing expense of attending a Worldcon, even one based near me.
On top of this, I'm supposed to be socking away money like mad for the really important trip my Songbird wants me to take sometime in the next few months to visit her in Nairobi ($1200 minimum for plane fare round-trip). Not to mention, of course, the usual household expenses, debts to be paid down, medical/automotive/veterinary health crises to be dealt with, etc., etc. (And at that, I'm one of the lucky ones in not having a whole family needing to either be dragged along or somehow provided for while I'm gone.)
In the historic conflict of FIAWOL (Fandom Is A Way Of Life™) vs. FIJAGH (Fandom Is Just A Goddamned Hobby™), I've spent two-thirds of my life in the FIAWOL camp. But even if I were to cut back my fanac to "hobby" levels, it's still become a frakkin' expensive hobby. The more I look at the issue, the more it looks like I simply can no longer justify going to any con at all that does not take place within the metro Atlanta area so I do not have to buy hotel room space or an airline seat. This limits me pretty much to GAFilk, Dragon*Con and that Sci Fi Summer thing happening in a couple months.
What's your experience been with the high cost of fandom? Am I exaggerating the problem? Is all this just annoying whingeing on my part? Or have you, too, found fannish pursuits no longer financially feasible in most instances?
Upshot: any out-of-town con, even one a couple hours' drive up the road in Chattanooga, is liable to ding me upwards of $300 after taxes and fees for a weekend's worth of whatever fun can be had. And the farther away the con, the more hundreds of dollars added to the cost...even before we start talking about little niceties like food, ground transport to/from airports, a cat-sitter for Ari the Humongous Orange Tabby™, tipping to various service folk, at-con purchases and other incidentals. Going to Balticon up in Maryland next month, even with a room-share, could easily use up a full five C-notes; and Contata's cost projections look almost as bad. And don't even get me started on the mind- and bank-account-blowing expense of attending a Worldcon, even one based near me.
On top of this, I'm supposed to be socking away money like mad for the really important trip my Songbird wants me to take sometime in the next few months to visit her in Nairobi ($1200 minimum for plane fare round-trip). Not to mention, of course, the usual household expenses, debts to be paid down, medical/automotive/veterinary health crises to be dealt with, etc., etc. (And at that, I'm one of the lucky ones in not having a whole family needing to either be dragged along or somehow provided for while I'm gone.)
In the historic conflict of FIAWOL (Fandom Is A Way Of Life™) vs. FIJAGH (Fandom Is Just A Goddamned Hobby™), I've spent two-thirds of my life in the FIAWOL camp. But even if I were to cut back my fanac to "hobby" levels, it's still become a frakkin' expensive hobby. The more I look at the issue, the more it looks like I simply can no longer justify going to any con at all that does not take place within the metro Atlanta area so I do not have to buy hotel room space or an airline seat. This limits me pretty much to GAFilk, Dragon*Con and that Sci Fi Summer thing happening in a couple months.
What's your experience been with the high cost of fandom? Am I exaggerating the problem? Is all this just annoying whingeing on my part? Or have you, too, found fannish pursuits no longer financially feasible in most instances?
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 10:41 pm (UTC)I can still do GaFilk for about $250, but that includes a vanpool (9 hr drive eash way) and roomsplit of like-minded folks from central Arkansas. If I tried to do a con in Chicago I wouldn't have the carpool, and the cost would jump to around $500, even with three roomsplitters.
I've been setting-aside chunks of my income tax refund for the last few years for Fannish Travel, and rationing myself to 1 convention a quarter.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 10:54 pm (UTC)Rob goes to quite a few more.
I know how much we spend on them, and I know how much money the merch sales make.
There's a reason I haven't quit my dayjob, and I don't suspect I will be able to anytime soon.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 10:54 pm (UTC)I think also that a lot of what I used to get exclusively out of fandom (in the 80s - early 90s) is available in other arenas nowadays - largely the intarweebs.
Just (some of) my two cents. ;)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:08 pm (UTC)I could run a con up here that would (barring transportation) cost the average attendee about $150.00 to $200.00 for the entire weekend.
But it's at the edge of the world.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:18 pm (UTC)I've only been to a couple of folk festivals and never overnighted at on, but they seem to be less expensive, and could be a model for filk, as an alternative to the science fiction convention model.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 10:54 am (UTC)I understand the Israelis also have bonfire-filksings on the beach -- they live in a small country, and many of them are students with limited income. I'm sorry to have missed their beach filks when I've been in town.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 04:52 pm (UTC)Oh?
Date: 2008-04-14 02:21 pm (UTC)Re: Oh?
Date: 2008-04-14 02:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:35 pm (UTC)However that usually means, at the minimum, several hundred people.
Most filk conventions are small enough to book smaller venues in off-seasons or more isolated locations.
I still gasp whenever I hear of someone paying for function space under those conditions.
You have to be willing to make concessions (MOST filkers are not)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 09:46 pm (UTC)Which is another interesting point--holiday weekends like Memorial Day or Thanksgiving may be good for the hotel costs (both sleeping room and function space), but I'm not sure they're good for the travel costs. (Yeah, let's make fans travel on the busiest weekends of the year when the good airfares get snapped up the quickest!)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:05 pm (UTC)World Cons? *picks self up off the floor after engaging in hysterical laughter*
Even regionals cost too much.
Sure, I like to socialize (and would probably feel even better about it since I started transitioning, but nope.
I just can't afford it.
I remember my first world con in 1974 in D.C.
$300.00 for the whole thing.
Excessive spending in dealers room.
A suite and parties every night.
These days?
Fer git it.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 06:24 pm (UTC)What cost $300 in 1974 would cost $1385.67 in 2007.
Which sounds just about right for covering the equivalent of what you got for your money back then.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 11:55 pm (UTC)In 1976 because of fear on the part of the con com of the potential size of the con it was raised to $50.00.
Since then, it has risen beyond the rate of inflation.
Not to cover cost as such , but to control membership.
I appreciate the fear that precipitated it, but the end result has pretty much driven myself and others like me out of the attendance pool.
That's life.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 01:43 pm (UTC)But I'll note three things on a more general level. First, I don't know how much of the membership cost remains purely preventative. I've never been on a WorldCon committee, but my understanding is that WorldCons cost a lot more to put on these days, because they have to be held in expensive convention centers.
Second, regionals, which are, after all, the great majority of cons, have actually had their average membership rise less than inflation, from about $15-$20 in the 70s to about $45-60 today. (Last weekend, I arrived at FilKONtario to discover that I'd forgotten to pre-register, and had to pay $60 at the door. On Sunday, pre-reg for next year was $45.)
And third, all other costs have risen with inflation or less. My memory is that hotel rooms in the 70s were about $39-49 at a regional. These days, most of the regionals I go to have hotel rates of $89-99. Other cost increases are commensurate.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 02:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 02:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 03:39 pm (UTC)For one thing, when I chaired conventions, function space often was comped with rooms.
These days, in venues that also provide sleeping rooms in larger cities, they may (if you're lucky) cut something off the price for a certain number of rooms , but, if you use the convention center, you get bupkiss.
I fell asleep, and when I woke up, times had changed (and not for the better).
I think, that as the cost of physically traveling goes up, we might expect hotels and conference centers to drop their fees.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:09 pm (UTC)I do mean to get out more than I have; it's just taking a while to ramp it back up, and it will never approach the congoing time I spent in my younger, singler, days.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:34 pm (UTC)I do realize that if I were single, I could split the cost between other folks. Still, if I were to split the room cost between four people it would still be approximately 200 dollars just to have a room and a badge. This is why the family does only one convention a year. I save all year for the convention that I go to so I can get my daughter cool t-shirts in the dealers room and some of the nicer but less expensive artwork available.
This means I do have to leave earlier in the evenings, so I miss out on much of the filk. I miss out on a lot of the panels, but that is mostly because my daughter isn't the magic age of 13 yet. She has her fan table, so I sit with her. I do get to see a good portion of my friends. The sad part of that is it's the only time during the year that I get to see any of them at all. Cons have become a big business if you sit and think about it. Not every con geek in Seattle works for Micro$loth, even though the prices seem like they think that we all must.
I would hate to think how much it would cost us to go to cons out of the local area. Empirecon and V-con would be even more expensive. The nice thing about going to a local con is that I can save money by not eating out etc. If you go out of town, you don't necessarily have that option. Hotel food is expen$ive. I won't buy lunch for 10.00, much less breakfast. I believe a donut is something like 5.00. There is a reason I toss 20.00 into the kitty in hostilities when I first go in. *sigh* I guess I have hit elderly curmudgeon stage :)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-11 11:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 12:19 am (UTC)I'm way too old to sleep on the floor. And I have too much stuff to lug.
And I don't like most hotel restaurants, which tend to be sucky overpriced food. And I am frequently given a song-and-dance about how many people will be in attendance, which these days directly affects my decisions. I go to PenguiCon and OVFF (and FKO when I can) for fun. (Note that ConClave and ConFusion are not on that list. I mean, yeah, they're fun, but they have their problems that make them impractical yet necessary.)
This may be my last MarCon for awhile.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:29 pm (UTC)Someone in your category I figured, the absolute bare minimum was a room and a badge, and that's if it's driving distance.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 01:19 am (UTC)On a separate note, I almost never bother with green rooms anymore. I do have reasons.
cold equations
Date: 2008-04-13 03:33 am (UTC)And I realize this is getting a bit off-topic but, as someone who has run a filk dept. at a regional, general interest convention, I vie for funds with all the other departments, then have to work within a set budget. If we bring in a music GoH, that's a fairly large chunk of said budget. Then I'm looking at the dollars I've got left and trying to decide whether to offer memberships to as many filkers as possible, or offer more compensation to fewer individuals. And comped memberships and/or rooms do count, dollar for dollar, toward that budget. As much as I hate counting these particular beans, it has to be done.
For anyone reading this who might be looking for a chance to 'sing for your supper', one small bit of advice: the earlier you contact the person running the program, the better your chances of compensation are :)
Re: cold equations
Date: 2008-04-13 11:20 am (UTC)Re: cold equations
Date: 2008-04-13 02:40 pm (UTC)And of course, the earlier the con gets permission to use your name as a draw, the more it is worth to the con. Being on con flyers and web-sites six months ahead of the con should help the con much more than being added to programming in the last month.
I've run filk programming before, but I will admit here that I operated in my own vacumn and could not guess the additional draw of a filker versus an an individual gamer (author or master), author, editor, artist, costumer or some other specialty.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 12:22 am (UTC)In-laws are treating us to a week-long Jewish retreat over the summer, and I'm trying to ignore how much they're spending on it.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 12:25 am (UTC)This year it'll be FKO, OVFF and Balticon and UT is lucky and honoured Balticon has invited us as guests, making that financing possible.
going to cons
Date: 2008-04-12 02:13 am (UTC)What's made it a bit easier is when I can split costs with someone. When I drove to ConCarolinas a few years ago, I split the cost of gas and the room. Since I got 2 memberships with my tables, I was able to save my traveling companion and myself a little bit of money.
And if you think going to just-out-of-the-area cons is expensive, consider what it cost to go to WorldCon last August. Granted, the airfare was 140,000 frequent flier miles, but considering the membership, the hotel room ($1,040 for 4 nights in Yokohama), the food that I didn't get out of the con suite, yeah, it got costly. And if you bought the airfare in business class, you were talking somewhere near $10,000. Just for the airfare.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 02:28 am (UTC)It helps that I have science, filking, and minor authorship credentials.
Also, I'm traveling to far fewer conventions than I used to get to, back when they were as cheap as you're remembering.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:10 am (UTC)I just attended 2 Boston conventions (Arisia and Boskone) and while I had a good time, if I didn't have a split room for either of them, I would likely not have gone. I am skipping them next year to attend 2 filk conventions instead. (GaFilk and I want to attend ConFlikt 2). Those I know will be shared hotel rooms.
Harold
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 10:49 am (UTC)My "final straw" in attending cons was when I came back from a convention (OVFF? I forget) and realized that I'd paid over half of the cost of producing the Divine Intervention bonus track "Roxanne" just to attend the convention: airfare, 50% hotel, taxis, etc. At that point, I compared the enjoyment I received from that recording vs. attending the convention, and realized I'd be just fine ditching cons going forward.
Although I've often observed fans priding themselves on environmental sensitivity and diversity, I think you do indirectly raise the point that it's inherently an expensive, middle-to-upper class lifestyle that consumes an enormous amount of fossil fuels in driving or flying around the country to science-fiction conventions while buying lots of stuff (both of which are not so environmentally friendly activities).
[Although admittedly, this is consistent with my own perception of American culture now that I'm away from it: we like to make feel-good gestures towards the environment (e.g. recycling or biofuels), but when it comes to the actual sacrifices that bring our petroleum consumption into line with other European countries that enjoy a similar standard of living, we are firmly attached to our way of living. e.g. try to convince a Texan to eat less factory-farmed meat and stop driving. My most embarrassing experience was visiting a museum in Europe with graphs showing what the average American consumes vs. a Western European.]
Some of the cost of fuel, I suspect, will work itself out over time as Americans shift more towards the type of more efficient vehicles I see in Europe (which were largely purchased when gas was only $6-$7 per gallon, whereas it's now closer to $10/gallon.)
Parenthetically, I do agree that people don't think consciously about how much money they spend over time at conventions. The standard response when people hear I say I've invested something like $120,000 to date into a filk label amounts to: "you are NUTS". (not counting the $30K or so we'll be spending in the next year, mostly on the Divine Intervention sequel in production.)
But the funny thing is that I've now sold about $100,000 worth of those CDs. If you break down the gap between expenses and revenue, my per-year cost as a hobby is not much greater than many people spend just attending a few cons per year - only a thousand or two per year.
And, uh, we still sell $5-$10K/year of those albums, so I think that over time the entire investment will come back in some form (something I can't say is true for one's past con-going!).
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 12:01 pm (UTC)Welcome to the Can't-Afford-It Club
Date: 2008-04-12 01:59 pm (UTC)I can't offer a solution beyond the increased sharing of resources to get to and survive at cons like back at the dawn of the digital age, when we were all young and broke. Fen used to message each other asking if they're going to this con or that to share costs. Now, some of us are making money but have no time, and for folks like moi, it's the reverse. And some have gone and reproduced, complicating the issue further.
So yeah, it's worse.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:33 pm (UTC)What I have found is that as I've taken on Duplicate Bridge (which in the US has 3 Bigger-Than-A-Worldcon events each year), is their events are always cheaper despite their space requirements being about the same. The bridgies get better room rates, et al.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 03:23 am (UTC)Me too, in large part because my days of sleeping on the floor, sharing hotel rooms with people whose trustworthiness and snoring habit I don't already know, scrounging food, and casual long-distance driving are behind me. I've gone from "a con? sure!" to "let's choose the ones that are really going to be worth it for me". I'm sure I'm losing a lot in this, but my priorities have shifted around and that's where I am now.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 03:42 pm (UTC)That's why we wound up driving to Toronto this year. Air Canada & United essentially have a monopoly on the DC to YYZ route (Useless Air has a couple of flights, but sucky times); they've got the costs run up to $500.
Of course location is key--even with gas getting expensive, and a few cons going defunct, there are *still* double-digit numbers of cons within a 3-4 hour drive of here. Definitely changes the perspective compared to places where there may only be two or three nearby.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 04:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-04-12 07:47 pm (UTC)FIJAGH!
Now, filking, on the other hand...
But yeah. $$$. And while markbernstein is right about inflation, our obligations and needs increase as we age, and our energy... well. (ObFilk: Fen, Don't Let Your Children Grow Up to be Mundane.)
no subject
Date: 2008-04-13 02:11 pm (UTC)Back to preparing testimony on a delightful Sunday. The real reason I don't actually get to cons these days.
no subject
Date: 2008-04-14 02:25 pm (UTC)About the only cons I'm interested in these days are GaFilk, FKO, and OVFF.
Media cons just cost too much. I highly doubt I'm going to attend Jumpcon in the Cincinnati atea -- the going price is about $100.