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Oct. 4th, 2006 12:49 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
thatcrazycajun
Above is a new graphic I came up with in response to a recent article in the local newspaper here about those who just can't let go of the issue of restoring the 1956-established Georgia state flag containing the Confederate Navy Jack (what most people think of as the "Rebel Flag"), which had never been part of GA's flag prior to 1956 and was added by the then-sitting State Legislature manifestly as a thumb in the eye to the African-American civil rights movement and U.S. Supreme Court decisions, Presidential executive orders and federal legislation in support thereof. This is also in reply to the number of pro-Rebel Flag bumper stickers I still see on vehicles in these parts. Feel free to pass it around.
And on the slim chance that any such "flaggers" may read this: One more time, guys... It doesn't matter two figs what you think it means; to a majority of people of all colors (including this native-born son of the deep South) it symbolizes racism, slavery, treason and regional sociopathy. It can have no other possible meaning, and has not had any since at least the beginning of the 20th century. It is like waving a Nazi swastika in front of Jews to display this flag anywhere in this country, in any context, for any reason. It belongs in history books, museums and costumed reenactments...and nowhere else.
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Date: 2006-10-04 05:19 pm (UTC)Hey, you'll like this. The other day, I was driving and saw a rust-red Jeep with bumper stickers, several of which were of a Confederate ilk. There was one of the Stars 'n Bars alone, one with "The South Shall Rise Again" or some such claptrap, and one with "Confederate By Choice; Union By Force," which I think borders on treason, actually. At least sedition. But who's counting?
Here's the kicker, though. The guy had New Jersey plates.
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Date: 2006-10-05 01:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 01:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 09:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-10-05 12:52 pm (UTC)Ditto. Were you born in LA? I was a Lafayette kid myself.
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Date: 2006-10-05 01:47 pm (UTC)Your tripe rebuffed by a Flagger !
Date: 2006-11-11 02:20 am (UTC)Lemme see (and feel free to rake me over the coals)...
The Confederate Navy Jack, 2nd edition, or the Battleflag of the Army of Tennessee, is in your opinion, bad.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
The flag you reference is a 3x5 rectangle, and has never been a part of the Georgia or ANY state flag. The more common 4x4 Battleflag of the Army of Northern Virginia (ANV) under General Robert E Lee is the symbol that makes up 2/3rds of the 1956 - 2001 Georgia State Flag.
Now, bear with me on this:
The ANV Battleflag has never been used by the Klan.
With me so far?
So a simple flag that went from flying only over Confederate Soldiers on the battlefield, after a long hiatus, placed on the State Flag is 'bad'?
No. Your history and take on life are skewed to the left of Satan.
The symbol that took up the space prior to the ANV flag was the 3 bars of the 1st National Confederate Flag.
The 1956 flag was changed because a very slim minority of cry babies decided they would refuse to learn the real truths behind the ANV flag that made up 2/3rds of the Ga flag. So now Georgia has a flag that is 98% Confederate Flag and the whiny crybabies have no clue.
Trying to compare Nazis to Confederates is dumb.
Nazis desired world conquest. Confederates wanted to be left alone.
Nazis stuffed 6 million Jews into gas ovens. Confederates had 5,000 Jewish troops, a Jewish Secretary of State, and the CSA Memorial in Arlington National Cemetery was sculpted by a Confederate Jew.
Nazis wanted a pure Aryan race. Confederates had troops drawn from whites, blacks, Jews, Catholica, Protestants, Episcopalians, Hispanics, Germans, Irish, Scottish, English, Indians, Women, and children - just to name a few...
Confederate Submarine Hunley sank USS Housatonic. Nazi submarine off the coast of Florida sank the USS Robert E Lee.
Finally, your reasons for the creation of the 1956 flag are the same reasons that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton and Rev Farrakhan give (BS!) The truth is in the next post...
1956 Georgia State Flag
Date: 2006-11-11 02:22 am (UTC)What is now commonly referred to as the "56 Flag" was created by a suggestion from Atlanta attorney John Sammons Bell, then-chairman of the State Democratic Party, attorney for the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia (ACCG), and later Judge on Georgia Court of Appeals. His desire was to "forever perpetuate the memory of the Confederate soldier who fought and died for his state."
The flag it replaced was designed by Waynesboro State Senator and former Confederate Colonel Herman H.Perry in 1879, based on the 1st Flag of the Confederacy, AKA Stars and Bars. Similar to our current flag, it had 2 red stripes and 1 white stripe, and a field of blue down the left side.
By 1955 however, people like Representative Denmark Groover argued at the time that the old flag never had enough meaning for him when he was a boy and that the new flag “would replace those meaningless stripes with something that has deep meaning in the hearts of all true Southerners"
Others like Senator Jefferson Davis of Cartersville also argued that the state should be entitled to adopt the new flag, because “Georgia suffered more than any other state in the Civil War and endured a scorched earth policy from the mountains of Tennessee to the sea.” SB98 was discussed and passed with little fanfare, and became law on July 1st, 1956.
History cont...
Date: 2006-11-11 02:24 am (UTC)Under the 1956 Bell version flag, Georgia's schools were fully integrated, Black citizens were no longer lynched, they began enjoying full civil and equal rights in business, political, and social settings. Georgia gained 3 professional sports teams - Falcons, Braves, and Flames - hosted 2 Superbowls, held the 1996 Olympics, and set the pace for the New South.
Georgia based troops took the "56 Flag" with them onto the foreign battlefields of Viet Nam, Grenada, Beirut, Bosnia, and Desert Storm, and just as their Confederate ancestors before them, fought and died for their homes, families, and flag. Millions of Georgia citizens aged 5 to 50 were born under that flag.
In 1958, the United States Congress passed laws granting the same rights and recognition enjoyed by Union Veterans to men who served in the Confederate States Army and Navy. To this day Confederate Veterans are United States Veterans.
Unfortunantly, the 1956 Bell version flag had it's enemies. Attempts at claiming the "56 flag" was changed to fight integration a long 2 years after the Brown vs Board decision helped begin the BIG LIE that remains to this day. Although the historical facts are out there that plainly refutes this, truth means little for those with agendas.
Concerning those who claim that the flag was "… designed as a last desperate grasp of defiance against integration." Judge John Sammons Bell said "Absolutely nothing could be further from the truth … every bit of it is untrue." He further stated that "Anybody who says anything to the contrary is wrong or perpetuating a willful lie." Plus in the year 1956 several newspaper accounts of the proposed change in the GEORGIA FLAG were published. In none of the articles was there any hint that the flag change was for any reason other than that stated by the gentlemen who proposed the change.
Former Governor Ernest Vandiver said "I can assure you that there was no discussion of segregation or of the U.S. Supreme Court. All that was discussed was the coming centennial of the Civil War and this flag was meant to be a memorial to the bravery, fortitude and courage of the men who fought and died on the battlefield for the Confederacy. More Americans died in that war than any other war in the history of America, before or since."
History final
Date: 2006-11-11 02:27 am (UTC)But the lies grew and multiplied. Another bit of untruth was that somehow the flag was "Bad for Business", and although the previously mentioned sports franchises and events came here under the "56 Flag", businesses like Home Depot were created here, Coca-Cola thrived and truly went global. Hartsfield Airport became the biggest in the world and 3 Interstates were built. Foreign companies built numerous plants here, and the economy was booming. The "56 Flag" was seen in movies like Smokey and the Bandit, and on TV shows like Matlock. Regardless, truth was ignored and facts tossed out the window.
In 1994, James Andrew Coleman filed a Federal Lawsuit against then Governor Zell Miller over the 56 Flag. Mr Coleman lost the suit and the flag remained, but once again Denmark Groover stood up to the plate, and in his deposition under oath he stated
" I have no personal knowledge which would dispute the purely historical motives which were expressed then and since by the sponsors and others involved with the legislation when it was introduced in the Senate. While I cannot say that the Supreme Court's rulings regarding desegregation played absolutely no role in my decision to support the bill in the House, I can say that segregationist sentiment was not the overriding or even a significant factor in my vote concerning the new flag, or, based on personal observation and knowledge, in its ultimate adoption by the House....”
Re: History final
Date: 2006-11-11 04:26 pm (UTC)Secondly, you are either willfully or ignorantly missing the point. Regardless of the motives, real or alleged, of the men who brought about the establishment of the flag you so dearly cherish, the one undeniable fact of the matter is that African Americans and many others, myself included, see this flag and the battle emblem it contains as a slap in the face. Your asinine nitpicking about which actual flag was used also misses this point; it resembles far too closely a flag that WAS flown by many racists and Klansmen (and I can show you evidence of my own to back it up if you insist) while committing violent and oppressive actions against black people, and WAS flown by men engaged in treasonous assault upon the Union, to be considered as anything other than offensive.
This state already has far too much hampering it in dealing with the rest of the country: an educational system that turns out young people who can't even read the diplomas they're handed (see the test results if you don't believe me), a regional ethos on social issues that is alienating to large portions of the nation, a reputation for political corruption that, based on the actions of the current Governor of late, is richly deserved. We do NOT need to be gratuitously setting out to anger and hurt people just to feed our own misguided ancestor-worship and salve our own lingering frustration over the Lost Cause. The current flag is more than enough historical acknowledgment of the state's Confederate past without adding what can only be perceived as racist graffiti to it, no matter what you or anyone else on the side of the "'56 Flag" may insist is meant by it. As John Kerry can tell you, it matters not one whit what you MEANT to say if others HEAR you saying something else.
Re: History final
Date: 2006-11-11 09:36 pm (UTC)When I posted, I was given 3 options.
" From: Anonymous
OpenID
LiveJournal user "
I chose the 1st, as I was too lazy to register.
Lack courage? Give me a call at 1-770-830-9280, or write me a letter at 790 Harrison Road, Carrollton Georgia, 30117, or send me an email at CobbsLegionSCV@HotMail.Com
Now, I am not trying to pick a fight, just point out facts you are not aware of. When you say "Your asinine nitpicking about which actual flag was used..." I must remind you that you said "...the 1956-established Georgia state flag containing the Confederate Navy Jack..." But at least you didn't call it the Stars and Bars as so many idiots do.
As for my "...gall to bray about the courage of Confederate soldiers of which you evidently possess not so much as the tenth part..."
Allow me to say that my GGGrandfather Aaron Bearden fought Gen WT Sherman's gang of rapists, arsonists and pillagers from Chattanooga to Atlanta in the 2nd Georgia State Line Regt. Another GGGrandfather, Thomas Drew was in the 41st Ga Infantry Co. G, and fought from Vicksburg, thru Tenn, on into Geogia and finally surrendered April 26th, 1865. My GGUncle was in Georgia's Cobb's Legion Infantry, Co F, and fought in Williamsburg, Va, Antietam Md, and in Gettysburg. He served time as a POW at US extermination camp called Point Lookout Md; so I might know a little bit of factual American history.
Did the Klan fly the rectangle BattleFlag? Yes, since 1950's. Should that be the sole reason to throw the flag in the historical trashbin? Does the Klan fly the US Flag? Yes, for 140 years. Apply logic evenly here
I assume you know that after sitting in the Ft Monroe Casemate prison for 2 years, Jefferson Davis was released never to stand any charges, because the Govt believed rightfully so that secession would be found legal under the Constitution. Treason? The laws at the time don't agree.
I am a Virginian, and our state flag is a Confederate Flag. The Ga 1956 flag represents memorial to Veterans. All the Flaggers ever desired and remain dedicated to is a Fair Flag Vote (HB15)